Curse

darkdreamr · May 06, 2008, 04:21 PM // 16:21

And what GW2 might be like if Anet isn't careful...

http://www.danwei.org/electronic_gam...away_in_zt.php

It's a long read, but it's worth it.

pumpkin pie · May 06, 2008, 04:26 PM // 16:26

3 cheers for Guild Wars' free to pay forever policy!

Witchblade · May 06, 2008, 04:38 PM // 16:38

that's how all MMO will end up in some years ...
there is quite a market there.

why asking for a couple gold coins for a key or a sword when you can get some $

Malice Black · May 06, 2008, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Never mind. Cake is on the house!

MSecorsky · May 06, 2008, 05:01 PM // 17:01

It's actually quite the story.

Dr Strangelove · May 06, 2008, 05:34 PM // 17:34

This is why I've decided to not buy any games that aren't free to play. Pay-to-play games focus on milking more and more money out of the consumer, rather than being fun. This applies to all the business models out there - mandatory subscription, optional subscription, paying for items, etc. This runs counter to everything a good game should be.

By contrast, free-to-play games have to focus on being fun, since their goals are to sell more games and to make you buy their next game. Fortunately for Guild Wars (and unfortunately for me) this is the only game of note in the genre with this system, so I'll likely continue throwing money at them.

Orange Milk · May 06, 2008, 06:19 PM // 18:19

ALL High level cap or no cap at all equiptment based MMo's will be like this someday. People don't like the grind, so they WILL spend the money to gain levels, they WILL spend the money to get the super leet best equiptment, in some cases. ZT is a game for a niche of people and not a casual gamer, because of time and cost it's geared towards those who don't have teh time to grind up, but do have teh RL money too.

Thats why I like Guild Wars. I don't like the title grinds, but I do like the fact that it is easy to get to the level of balance between you and other characters in game and if you miss a few days you don't fall behind.

I tried EvE Online and found it VERY boreing, no extra money to get things but if you were not "learning" every second of REAL time you were falling behind.

I was surprised to read how her husband didn't game but just about everyone else she knew did.

Those exploding gems though, thats funny shit, worse than lock picks and Cofers as a gold sink, or RL money sink in this case.

~ Dan ~ · May 06, 2008, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

3 cheers for Guild Wars' free to pay forever policy!

Free to pay?

Choose your words carefully

phan · May 06, 2008, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

Never mind. Cake is on the house!

i'll take a peace ; if isn't french cake ofc xD

Martin Alvito · May 06, 2008, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Think of this as a continuum, with the expansion-based model of GW at one end (free servers) and the game in question at the other.

Even in GW, if you want to be the "richest" player, the player with the highest ranking in a title, or whatever, the same dynamic over time exists. Time > skill, although skill is a pre-requisite for this sort of objective.

However, GW permits you to actually enjoy the game without succumbing to full-on grind; it further permits you to enjoy the game without having to pay for items and the like. GW does so by not setting up the Darwinian kill-or-be-killed environment of the game. In the game as described, clearly level and gear determine outcomes, and gear is only attainable through spending real-life cash.

I don't think there's a danger of ALL pay-for-play games turning into this model; clearly there's a demand for this model, and the game satisfies that demand. However, it's equally apparent that most Americans and Europeans just don't want to play something that is such a thinly concealed attempt to suck money out of one's wallet.

Longasc · May 06, 2008, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Hehe, this is great.

The makers of the game cash in the fact that people are willing to spend enormous sums for increased e-peen size.

Very good for the guys who had the idea, but the idea smells to me as an European. I play computer games for fun and they usually get worse when real money gets in or e-sports attitudes. Your imagination cannot really soar if it is tied to real life earnings, IMO.

FengShuiDove · May 06, 2008, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Interesting and a little bit sad. "WTB 250 Z-Keys $.10 per!" anyone?

In all seriousness though, the format of the "warring kingdoms" sounds similar to what they've planned for "World PvP" in GW2. I like the concept as it adds a more RP feel.

However I'm pretty content with the weaponry and armor system of Guild Wars. The stuff you have reflects your efforts but doesn't really give you additional in-game benefit. I hope that with the higher level cap in GW2 it doesn't create *much* striation between tiers of players, though I think it would be good to have a minimal amount. Level 20 is just too easy and doesn't really reflect any ability to play the game per se. In my opinion, it would be great if there were two to four different level caps. Say, Level 70 for completing campaigns and gaining experience in what we now have as "Normal Mode," Level 80 by gaining experience in NM Elite Areas, 90 by HM campaigning and 100 by HM Elite Areas. As long as the levels don't reward attribute points at the same (rising) rate and instead offer diminishing gains per level, this could create some "kingly" figures without separating the game into "gods" and "peasants."

At any rate, I think it's fascinating that a whole nation/topographical group of people were quite honestly preyed upon. Reminds me of Big Brother playing on people's fears and attitudes.

Nice find.

EDIT: The word "rising" replaced by [skill]Rising Bile[/skill]?

Use ( instead of [, because the [ ] tags are part of our skill code, and certain words will show up as skill icons.

Ctb · May 06, 2008, 06:56 PM // 18:56

So... it's a normal hobby?

People with money who take their hobbies seriously spend that money to buy "exclusive" or "top tier" equipment even when they're not professionals. It doesn't matter if we're talking about tennis racquets or running shoes or fishing rods, selling expensive toys to hobbyists is, always was, and always will be a good way to make money.

It's not even new to video gaming. Back in "the day" companies used to make money selling fancy programmable game pads (or even just arcade-style joysticks if you remember the good old days of the NES) that were VERY good at giving you an edge in certain games, especially 1v1 fighters. How many people here own a G15 or similar programmable keyboard? High DPI mouse?

It's just a natural extension of a normal phenomenon. People want an edge and they're willing to pay for it. This is just one more way to accomodate that demand.

Nightmares Hammer · May 06, 2008, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

This is why I've decided to not buy any games that aren't free to play. Pay-to-play games focus on milking more and more money out of the consumer, rather than being fun. This applies to all the business models out there - mandatory subscription, optional subscription, paying for items, etc. This runs counter to everything a good game should be.

By contrast, free-to-play games have to focus on being fun, since their goals are to sell more games and to make you buy their next game. Fortunately for Guild Wars (and unfortunately for me) this is the only game of note in the genre with this system, so I'll likely continue throwing money at them.

I agree. *throws wads of money at ANet*

RiKio · May 06, 2008, 07:40 PM // 19:40

Spending money for making you better at a game is a fail IMO. Games are supposed to be played for fun.

And not everybody is ready for paying money for a game...

Karuro · May 06, 2008, 07:45 PM // 19:45

And that is why I don't play p2p games.
It's just wasting money in the end.

Foe · May 06, 2008, 07:47 PM // 19:47

interesting read, I disagree with the post proclaiming all games will adopt this model. Why has GW been so successful? At least half of the people playing guildwars are here due to the fact there is no monthly fee. If Anet were to adopt a monthly fee or a model similar to the one in the article they would be in the poor house quickly. Anet has proven their current model has a huge market and if they were to abandon it another company would step in over night to fill the gap. Also such a game would take no one by surprise here in the "west" as its motives would be instantly recognized and QQstormed on every forum/board/publication. There are also MANY cultural differences in play here. For example supa hottie MDs don't play WoW with all of their limited free time shhhhh, aht, no, nope, uhuh, not one

Shadowmere · May 06, 2008, 07:56 PM // 19:56

wow...that game sounds seriously scary, near the end it was sounding like "1984 Online" I mean when you can't even mention the game devolpers name in game and can be sent of to ingame prison by the game designers with no warning....downright creepy.

I mean the whole thing is deisgned to make money more effeciently than any other pay to play MMO before but the ingame atmoshpere it created sounds really scary. Clearly the devs of that game work quite hard to hide the fact that the whole thing is designed to suck money from players and not actually provide a truely engaging game experience, the fact that the original article was suppressed by them seems to show that all to clearly.

damn...thank god for Anets entirely fee free system

Turbobusa · May 06, 2008, 07:57 PM // 19:57

ahahah no skill required... *points and laugh*.
Great businessmen, fail players.
I can only applaud the devs for making money that way and spit on their game for promoting stupidity.

toastgodsupreme · May 06, 2008, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

Those exploding gems though, thats funny shit, worse than lock picks and Cofers as a gold sink, or RL money sink in this case.

Oh that's taken straight from L2 (who I'm sure got it from some other game).

First you have to gather materials to craft your armor and weapons. And believe me, the high end gear costs a ton just to craft.

Then you can upgrade your gear. If you go beyond a certain level, you risk breaking your gear completely and losing not just your upgrades to it, but the gear itself.

Oh yeah, Ragnarok Online does this too. Forgot about that.

So yeah, that just means you have to go out and farm all those mats again or spend more gold (which you probably don't have) to make a new weapon or armor piece.

Private servers for a long time have been allowing people to buy equipment upgrades in exchange for "donations". This company seems to have capitalized on that idea, though it sounds like they've gotten quite greedy and stopped being slick about it.